[PIGMI] Survey

Wed Aug 3 21:08:06 PDT 2011

I'm not arguing that demographic information is bad, or wrong, or
irrelevant.

I'm just saying: randomly collecting data in the hopes that magically you
will be able to see patterns it _afterwards_ is fundamentally the wrong
approach to analytics.

Start with a hypothesis and then test. You can't action data.

If you have a good reason to collect demographic data, sure.... go for it!

Web analytics is a different story. Seriously who gives a toss if you have
male IE6, foreign visitors who like eating banans while they browse your
website, or more US visitors? or more visitors from ufos with 50x50 pixel
screens?

Correlate visitors to revenue and optimize for high revenue visitors.
Correlate marketing spend to revenue and optimize for effective marketing
channels. Literally everything else about web analytics is irrelevant
noise.... but I digress. That's not really relevant to game survey stuff. :)

~
Doug.

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Wesley Lamont <pigmi at raez.net> wrote:

> Any survey can only be related to the demographic of the audience surveyed.
> Without knowledge of who was surveyed the results can't correlated to
> anything but speculation. But I'm sure there is information from this survey
> which can be used. Already we know they had to do the survey online which is
> limited to people with internet access and/or mobile phones. Where the
> survey was posted would also determine where these results relate.
>
> As Paul said he did it for a reason so I assume he put the survey in the
> position that would most suit find the answers to his questions.
>
> Some other statistics on game use from the US over 2010:
> http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2011.pdf
> they have a break down of computer game sales, video game sales and other
> media sales for 2010. And units sold from Video versus computer games. But
> this is a different demographic surveyed
> On 04/08/2011, at 11:14 AM, Doug wrote:
>
> > Can't really say I agree.
> >
> > Just as in website analytics 90% of the data collected is never used, and
> thus totally irrelevant, unless you have someone dedicated to actually
> trying to interpret your results and look for interesting relationships,
> it's not worth bothering.
> ahh but if you want to look at the relevance of the data in question the
> information is useful. What countries are viewing your site, what browsers,
> how much are people looking through your site, how long they are staying.
> All this can alter your design and development.
>
> >
> > You can talk confidence intervals, statistical relevance, domain bias
> etc. etc. but really unless you (or someone working for you) actually has
> the experience and knowledge to apply these concepts, you're better off
> ignoring them; in appropriately applied they just mess the data up and you
> end up over fitter to outliers.
> >
> > Broadly speaking, increased sample size --> increased survey accuracy.
> >
> > I don't really think including demographic breakdown is relevant in many
> surveys just on general principles.
> >
> > Want to know about surfing games? Ask a question: Do you like surfing
> games?
>
>  and depending on who you asked the results could vary from 0% like to 100%
> like? so without a demographic your results are generally..... I won't say
> useless..... but hard to correlate to anything but the people surveyed.
>
> Not that you would ever know nothing about those surveyed. It is impossible
> to get a completely random assortment of people globally to do a survey.
> Would almost instantly be limited to a country, a language and a literacy
> demographic.
> >
> > Trying to figure out, oh, surfers are 'usually' 20-24 year old males
> (O_o) and then reverse correlate that to results is just asking for trouble.
>
> now if you asked the survey and they could add their age you would be able
> to look at your result and state. Thos aged 5-10 like surfing games 15%,
> 10-20 like it 25%, 20-30 like it 45% and 30-40 like it 30%
>
> so you can then use that information to tailor the development for a
> narrower target audience.
>
> >
> > :) Just my $0.02. Been involved in a fair bit of web analytics and the
> number of times I get asked if we can collect demographic data to see "if we
> can see some interesting relationships" is just silly. No. You can't.
>
> such as where people are viewing your website from what country when you
> are selling stuff overseas? or people are looking at the home page and
> leaving after 2seconds? (maybe the flash file is too big, maybe there is a
> flaw on certain browsers etc etc)
>
> Wesley Lamont
>
>
>
> >
> > ~
> > Doug.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Ellen Jurik <sunlightsylph at yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
> > Theoretically, every game appeals to everyone ever.
> >
> > And yet effective marketing and advertising relies on knowing who is
> likely to be a surfer and therefore where they will be and how they find out
> about it. While I agree that it can go overboard and become superfluous,
> demographics can point out false assumptions- maybe a surfing game would be
> more likely to be accessed via Facebook or a flash game portal, etc.
> >
> > It's not just me thinking this- almost every division of the
> entertainment industry does it, and I know for a fact that Tantalus
> approached "Pony Friends" that way, and it explains why there are so many
> "little girl" games on the DS- because little girls are more likely to have
> a DS, and DS consoles are more likely to be owned by little girls.
> >
> > Besides, sometimes it just puts your survey results in context, or can
> lead to interesting data or links you hadn't expected ;)
> >
> > Ps, you know me and I'm in no way attempting to undermine the validity of
> the results. I just do believe that demographics of age, sex, income etc
> shouldn't be dismissed as completely superfluous.
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo!7 Mail on Android
> >
> >
> > From: Paul Turbett (Black Lab Games) <paul at blacklabgames.com.au>;
> > To: <pigmi at pigmi.org>;
> > Subject: Re: [PIGMI] Survey
> > Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 2:34:29 AM
> >
> > I respectfully disagree regarding demographics. Whilst it is possible to
> generalise about certain age and gender profiles gravitating to a particular
> platform, I think it's more useful to focus in interests. If somebody makes
> a game about surfing, it is going to appeal to people who surf. That covers
> a wide age range, and both genders.
> >
> > L8r, Paul
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Ellen Jurik <sunlightsylph at yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
> > Demographic breakdown is certainly important for making design decisions
> and choosing which platform for which game (eg, 9 year old girls might not
> play on PS3, so the game would never sell). It can still be anonymous while
> gathering that data- "anonymous" just means "without name" :)
> >
> > Meanwhile, ScreenAustralia's Audience Participation Survey didn't even
> give the options of PCs (or macs) or non-mobile/phone handheld gaming
> devices... Which data sources were you looking at, Wesley? Sometimes surveys
> that look totally fair, scientific and impartial aren't actually designed
> very well.
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo!7 Mail on Android
> >
> >
> > From: Paul Turbett (Black Lab Games) <paul at blacklabgames.com.au>;
> > To: <pigmi at pigmi.org>;
> > Subject: Re: [PIGMI] Survey
> > Sent: Wed, Aug 3, 2011 9:21:02 AM
> >
> > Hi Wesley
> >
> > The survey was anonymous, so I didn't collect that data. To be honest,
> > I don't think age and gender is really important (and certainly wasn't
> > relevant to the goal I had for the survey which was to assist with
> > some decisions about a project I have in the works).
> >
> > L8r, Paul
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Wesley Lamont <pigmi at raez.net> wrote:
> > > Thanks for sharing Paul.
> > >
> > > I also am unsure of the respondents. Could you put up a break down of
> the people who replied? Age, platform reply was made, gender? If you
> collected that data that is. From most other sources Consoles beat a PC for
> games share by a rather whopping margin so I'm curious as to the reasons
> (apart from those you have already mentioned in the article).
> > >
> > > Wesley Lamont
> > >
> > >
> > > On 03/08/2011, at 2:29 PM, Paul Turbett (Black Lab Games) wrote:
> > >
> > >> The survey was web-based, so it could be taken on any web-enabled
> > >> device. The other thing is that it asked how frequently each of the
> > >> platforms are used for gaming, which I think it independent from the
> > >> device being used to answer the questions.
> > >>
> > >> However I think the results are skewed for sure - by the sources I
> > >> used to direct people to the questionnaire. But like I said in the
> > >> post, that was intentional, because the sources are related to the
> > >> people I'm seeking to make games for.
> > >>
> > >> L8r, Paul
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Michael B <michael.sg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>> Hi Paul, i just had a thought, don't you think that the results might
> be
> > >>> compromised by having the survey on a PC?
> > >>>
> > >>> Ie if the survey was given to kids in school, high school, tafe, even
> > >>> university whether the kids and adults who couldnt afford PC's or
> iphone's
> > >>> would make up a larger majority than PC users ?
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 3 August 2011 12:16, Paul Turbett (Black Lab Games)
> > >>> <paul at blacklabgames.com.au> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi All!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> For those interested in stats (and lets face it, that's everybody
> > >>>> right?), I've just got around to my first post on the survey I
> > >>>> conducted in June. http://blacklabgames.com.au/blog/2011/08/stats/
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> L8r, Paul
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Paul Turbett
> > >> Black Lab Games
> > >> www.blacklabgames.com.au
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Turbett
> > Black Lab Games
> > www.blacklabgames.com.au
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Turbett
> > Black Lab Games
> > www.blacklabgames.com.au
> >
> >
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